NEVER MIND THE ALPINISM, HERE’S TWIGHT & ROLLINS

HR I think it was more a word that got thrown around than a concept that was explored. At the end of the day, a lot of punk rockers ended up being pretty bourgeois, so the anarchy concept was just that–a concept, something to say, but not a concept to be truly embraced.

MT In this context, for me, anarchy means freedom; freedom From and freedom To. In the mountains I could hold on or let go at any time. True autonomy. My body no longer belonged to the State. OK, it’s a bit dramatic, but it’s how I felt back then. I felt truly free, which is what it’s all about isn’t it? That said, boundaries and/or limitations sometimes allow greater freedom and creativity than a so-called free-for-all, both gravity and the big-ass bouncer at the door provide boundaries within which to operate and explore.

HR I think it does. In 2025 you see it in “normal” people getting their hair, dyed colors, tattoos on bankers, etc. they might not know exactly where this kind of thing came from and that’s when you know that it’s a true transfer. It goes almost invisibly into culture.

MT It depends on the definition of punk and the openness of the minds and areas towards which such transferability is directed. If the main takeaway from the culture is DIY, do it yourself, do your own thing, ignore social norms and make your own, tear up the societal recipe and cook up your own life path yourself then yes, the culture and ideals are highly transferable to anyone with an appropriate temperament, and any activity human beings may undertake.

HR Depends on the punk, I think. There were many, who took drugs and drank alcohol, and to a certain extent destroyed themselves. Also, it’s not a frame of mind that is exactly achievement – oriented and the lifestyle is probably pretty hard on the internal organs. I always like the music and some of the ideas of punk rock, but not necessarily the lifestyle.

MT Hardcore ideals are expressed by way of hardcore physicality, which does indeed exact a price. The “no future” undercurrent at the origins of punk promote a “live fast, die young” attitude, if there’s no future to plan or prepare for then use it hard now. Alpinism is the same; if you’re going to die doing it or are likely to then chase the strongest possible experiences now, don’t hold anything in reserve.

HR For me, I prioritize my energies towards work projects that will have results I can use.

MT Ideally, as in according to the ideal, energy is spent making, not taking. Creating, not consuming.

HR hopefully it fears complacency, mediocrity and compromise.

MT Confinement, a lack of oxygen, regulations that suppress expression (and this does not contradict the concept that some limits allow freedom stated above). The regulations that suppress are sometimes financial (excessive permitting fees in Himalayan region), political (regions closed — and sometimes rightfully so — to particular nationalities and activities), or based in fear and liability (mandatory use of supplemental O2 above certain elevations in China*), or the restricted vision of safety Nazis who feel entitled to manage risk for others according to their own tolerance of same. The Mountains and the Pit each demand some courage, not to mention writing and rehearsing and performing music or other art. Those who lack it should not be permitted to regulate those who do.

*THE WORST OF THE CLIMBING INDUSTRY AND BUREAUCRATIC INTERFERENCE COMBINED, 8000m PEAKS IN THE EVEREST REGION MUST USE SUPPLEMENTARY OXYGEN

HR At this point, it’s as mainstream as any kind of music or youth movement.

MT Sticking with the theme, as an ideal punk is expressed everywhere, or can be. In sweaty basement music venues, in gyms, boxing clubs, speeding (self-powered) across unforgiving pavement, on the steepest mountains, the highest summits, austere deserts and wide open, near-freezing water; unnatural and natural environments. This is a literal answer but more interesting is to examine the internal environment where punk may thrive, grow, and mature — the open mind, the searching heart and soul, acceptance and also a lack of it, confrontation, and all (hopefully) transmuted into physical expression, into creation and meditation.

HR I wish it was literacy, but it’s always been media. Rock was sensationalized and quite often distorted by the media. Punks were seen as drooling, drug addicted, criminally minded monsters, and certainly some of them were, but that also describes a lot of policemen I’ve encountered in my life.

MT Any platform that is not founded on commerce may viably carry and broadcast the punk ideal. At its inception the internet was punk as fuck; anti-establishment, leveled playing field, open to all, just as punk was open to those who could barely play their instruments but had energy and curiosity and attitude. These days though, digital platforms reflect the majority of their users, feeding up if-you-like-this-you-may-like-this bullshit, algorithmic steering that only leads to homogeneity. Except in the Comments section, no platform ever offered a suggestion of if-you-like-this-you-should-take-a-long-hard-look-at-your-motivations-and-ask-yourself-why, it never offered the opposite or even a meaningful, tangential idea. All social media is designed to make people as much alike as possible, and turn them into both consumer and consumed. Physical art is different; the underlined text, the dog-eared page, the smell of ink or paint and the rustle of paper. Ephemeral art also matters; the hear-then-gone live show, the here-then-gone ice climb, things that may be experienced but not held or preserved, this is punk as fuck.

HR Whatever you’ve got. Hopefully that somewhat arcane cinematic reference is not lost upon the reader.

MT It’s dangerous to step out of line. Punk confronts the notion of going along to get along and the consequence of that is social and financial; they don’t call hand and face tattoos “job-stoppers” for nothing. A punk must be willing (and able) to fight in defense of extreme ideas and opinions. Sure, there’s the performative, choreographed violence of the pit, but generally the risk there is that of accidental injury although some bands were known, not for the music necessarily, but for their excessively violent fans. On the other hand the alpinist punk must be willing to die in the act of expressing and experiencing an ideal. Never ask, “How light is too light?” if you’re not willing to learn and live with (or not) the answer. The punk ideal is self-knowledge and the alpinist uniquely positioned to test the validity of his or her knowledge and capability. Be honest or get dead.

HR Quite often at punk shows, I go to, people seem to be watching the band through their phone. I’m not sure at this point what punk rock achieves.

MT These days everyone is watching, and an intolerably large percentage are performing for and seeking validation from whoever is watching. Dependence on extrinsic validation, especially from non-peers, is sickening and ultimately, devolutionary. Decisions are made by performers of all sorts according to the reaction provided by the audience; go too hard and you turn them off, be just marginal enough though and you can sell something. Audience always commoditizes the performer, eventually, which means art itself is compromised by excessive external influence.

HR Apathy. All cultural tributaries can dry up if ignored. all independent music scenes are the participant’s to lose.

MT A lack of creativity. Repetition. Waning energy. Sometimes maturity. Resistance-fatigue. Go your own way fatigue. The trappings of punk, the clothes, the behavior, especially when worn or done in a performative way, an outlandish look-at-me way, drives external intolerance, and while this doesn’t kill, it does suffocate. Political associations kill punk; the music is extreme, the climbing is extreme, stretching the edges of human experience, thus any political associations can be similarly extreme, whether left or right, anything too far into the margins will be dismissed. Intolerance kills an idea just as certainly as compromise. On the other hand, one of the best punk bands (Big Black) announced their break-up then recorded their greatest album. Like Zarathustra, they were brave enough to die at the right time, and to choose it.